Club build - Tamiya M41

[Herk]

I would suggest a Danish M41 using the black and dark green camo scheme like the DK1 had.  Considering photos of the current Leopard 2's (see attached) show the tanks with and without the small Danish shield.  You could do your build with or without the shield.  Considering where the shield is on the Leopard, I would recommend putting the shield in a similar position.  Addition of the antenna pennant would be very eye catching.
Regards!

[Ronv]

I asked a decal maker in Holland if they had M41 decals. He said that the Dutch never used the M41, they used they M24 Chaffee instead. (They are creating a decal sheet for the M24 but it is still weeks away from completion so a What If is out of the question). I also read the details from the Danish army site more closely and it said that Holland was not a user of the M41. So I guess I am back to marking the build as either a Danish M41 or use the kit decals and build an US or Japanese version.

Any ideas/suggestions??

Thanks
RonV

[Bill L2]

Bill,
Your mantlet cover looks real good!  What did you use - tissue or lead foil?

For the rivet counters, you might want to check the number of clamps you have, I think you might be short a couple.  Here are some photos I have - the tank doesn't have the cover, but the clamps are there.

Look forward to seeing it at the Sept meeting!

Regards

Thanks Herk. I will go back and add some more. I was just doing guess work. I should have checked a reference picture. I'm terrible at doing research. I used tissue paper and white glue with water for the dust cover. The straps are just some masking tape. Still not sure if I will leave it green or do a what if winter scheme.

[Herk]

Bill,
Your mantlet cover looks real good!  What did you use - tissue or lead foil?

For the rivet counters, you might want to check the number of clamps you have, I think you might be short a couple.  Here are some photos I have - the tank doesn't have the cover, but the clamps are there.

Look forward to seeing it at the Sept meeting!

Regards

[Bill L2]

Update on the M 41 group build. Painted the M 41. I am going to use this weathering set on the tank. I am not sure about the winter scheme as of yet.

[Herk]

According to Tank Encyclopedia, the M41 was largely distributed among allied nations inside NATO, namely:
Austria (42 used from 1960 to 1979),
Belgium (135 used from 1958 to 1974),
Denmark (53 M41DK [not the DK1] used from 1953 to 1998),
Spain
West Germany (350)

Here are a couple of interesting photos of M41s you might want to consider, first is from New Zealand (very interesting color scheme) and a M41DK1 - I would think the Danes used this scheme on more than just the DK's.
Regards

[Ronv]

Ok I think I will do the Pre-69 Danish or Dutch version. No upgunning or funky boxes. So all I need to do is match color and vehicle markings. Cool deal!
RonV

[Herk]

This looks like the German M41G according to the research I did on my build.  The addition of the "German lighting and the smoke launchers" to the M41A3 brought it to the M41G standard.

According to the online Tank Encyclopedia:
- The M41A1 was the first production variant, in 1954. The electric traverse system was replaced by an hydraulic traverse, the extra room allowed to increase the ammunition storage from 57 to 65 rounds.
- The M41A2 appeared in 1956, with an engine upgrade, the fuel injected Continental AOS 895-3 replacing the ancient carburetor fuel system.
- The M41A3 were upgraded M41/M41A1 to the new fuel injection system.
- The West German tanks were upgraded in the late 1970s with a new Cummin engine s ATV-903TR of 465 hp diesel engine and upgraded main gun to fire AFPDS ammo.
- The last Danish tanks were retired in 1998. They had been upgraded as the M41 DK-1 which included a complete overhaul: New engine, thermal sights for the gunner and commander, complete NBC protection lining and anti-SPG side skirts.

Attached are images of the USA M41A3 versions - they all seem to have the big search light that was prominent on the Vietnam era M60.

[Ryan K]

It looks like the Dutch had 3 versions:

M41 1962-1969
M41-DK 1969-1985
M41-DK1 1985-End use


I think that pic is one of the pre-85 versions.

[Ryan K]

Ryan,
Are you sure of the web site - armydetails.dk?  I only bring up a book sellers web site.
Regards,
steve

I just copied what Ron had but it's the same site

http://www.armyvehicles.dk/m41.htm

[Herk]

Hey does anyone know if all the Danish M41-DK's were upgunned or not? I copied this from armydetails.dk website that list the changes for the Danish version:

Danish Army Specific: 53 vehicles of the M41 Walker Bulldog was delivered as part of the MDAP program in 1962 to replace the M24 Chaffee and the M10 "Achilles". All were given a "mid-life update" by Falck Schmidt, Odense in 1969 - 1971 (turret, gun, engine and electric's) and again in 1985 - 1987 by DISA, Herlev (price of 7 mill. DKr. each) to DK1 standard.
Historical: Origin of the M41, initially known as the "light tank T37", began in 1949 to replace the M24 Chaffee. The M41 "Walker Bulldog" Tank was a light tank designed to be air-transportable and to provide mobile firepower in combat. The M41 was originally named "Little Bulldog" but was renamed in honour of Gen. W.W. Walker who was killed in a jeep accident in Korea in 1951.
The M41 was produced in the 1950´s by Cadillac´s Cleveland Tank Plant, Ohio, with first production models completed in 1951. By 1953 the M41 Bulldog had totally replaced the M24 Chaffee in the US Army, where it remained until the late 1960´s, when it was replaced by the M551Sheridan.
Also A1, A2 and A3 models were produced differing in gun control and fuel systems.
The chassis including drive train was shared with the M44 and M52 SPG´s and the M42 "Duster" SPAAG.
When production seized in 1954 a total of 3.729 units (M41 only) had been manufactured.
The M41 has been exported to Brazil (300), Chile (60), Denmark (53), Dominican Republic (12), Guatemala (10), Japan (150), Philippines, South Vietnam, Somalia (10), Taiwan (675), Thailand (200), Tunisia (10) and West Germany.
A Taiwanese upgrade is known as the M41D. This included a local manufactured 76 mm gun, diesel engine, reactive armour, laser rangefinder and a ballistics computer.
Length: 8.16 m (318 inches (including main armament)).
Width: 3.20 m (126 inches).
Height: 3.07 m (119 inches).
Weight: 23.495 kg (51.800 lb.).
Armour: 13 - 38 mm.
Engine: 6-cylinder Continental or Lycoming AOS-895-3, 14.669 cm3 (895 cubic inches) displacement, supercharged, air cooled.
Horsepower: 500 at 2.800 rpm.
Transmission: 2-range GM Allison CD 500-3 Cross-drive transmission with torque converter.
Transfer case: None.
Electrical system: 24 volt, negative ground.
Brakes: Mechanical, multiple disc.
Fording depth:
without preparation: 1.00 m (39 inches).
with deep water fording kit: N/A.
Fuel type: Petrol.
Fuel capacity: 530 liter (116 gallons).
Range: 160 km (100 miles).
Crew: 4.
Armament: Armed with a 76 mm gun M32, a 7.62 mm and a 12.7 mm (cal. .50) machine-gun. 65 rounds of 76 mm, 2.175 rounds of 12.7 mm and 5.000 rounds of 7.62 mm ammunition were carried.
Additional: AEG-B30 IR-projector. Mounted with AN/GRC-7 or AN/GRC-8 radio.

So I wonder if I build an early Danish version all I need to do is leave the existing gun and add some side skirting??
RonV

Ron,
This is from the Danish Army web page.  It seems to indicate no change in the main gun, however the photo shows the side skirts and the storage boxes on the turret.  Note the larger engine exhausts.

Here the DK1 version of the M41. The turret modification is clearly visible. The old gasoline engine was replaced by a new turbo-charged diesel powerpack (Cummins VTA-903TR developing 465 hp at 2.800 rpm). The 76 mm gun remained, but a new type of high performance anti-tank round (APFSDS from AAI International) was bought.
Other improvements includes an NBC system, thermal night vision system (Jahn Anderson) with integrated laser rangefinder (Ericsson Radio Systems), night vision periscope (Texas Instruments) as well as Halogen searchlight mounted on the gun mantlet. The fire control system was made by AEG Telefunken using American, Danish and German components.
Wegmann smoke dischargers were added to the turret. Fire suppression is handled by a system from Graviner (Firewire).
Note the Leopard 1-like side skirt.
Fuel capacity was increased to 930 liters (204 gallons) and range to 750 km (468 miles).
17 tanks were cannibalized in 1997 to keep the remaining 36 tanks running.
The M41 DK1 was demobbed in 1998 - 1999. One went to the Armor Museum at the Army Combat School in Oksboel Base Training Area, some are used for target practice and the remainder have been scrapped.

[Herk]

Ryan,
Are you sure of the web site - armydetails.dk?  I only bring up a book sellers web site.
Regards,
steve

[Ryan K]

I would build to the photo at armydetails.dk that looks like the pre-69 rebuild maybe. 

Which would mean no gun change or skirt. No funky boxes either.

[Ronv]

Hey does anyone know if all the Danish M41-DK's were upgunned or not? I copied this from armydetails.dk website that list the changes for the Danish version:

Danish Army Specific: 53 vehicles of the M41 Walker Bulldog was delivered as part of the MDAP program in 1962 to replace the M24 Chaffee and the M10 "Achilles". All were given a "mid-life update" by Falck Schmidt, Odense in 1969 - 1971 (turret, gun, engine and electric's) and again in 1985 - 1987 by DISA, Herlev (price of 7 mill. DKr. each) to DK1 standard.
Historical: Origin of the M41, initially known as the "light tank T37", began in 1949 to replace the M24 Chaffee. The M41 "Walker Bulldog" Tank was a light tank designed to be air-transportable and to provide mobile firepower in combat. The M41 was originally named "Little Bulldog" but was renamed in honour of Gen. W.W. Walker who was killed in a jeep accident in Korea in 1951.
The M41 was produced in the 1950´s by Cadillac´s Cleveland Tank Plant, Ohio, with first production models completed in 1951. By 1953 the M41 Bulldog had totally replaced the M24 Chaffee in the US Army, where it remained until the late 1960´s, when it was replaced by the M551Sheridan.
Also A1, A2 and A3 models were produced differing in gun control and fuel systems.
The chassis including drive train was shared with the M44 and M52 SPG´s and the M42 "Duster" SPAAG.
When production seized in 1954 a total of 3.729 units (M41 only) had been manufactured.
The M41 has been exported to Brazil (300), Chile (60), Denmark (53), Dominican Republic (12), Guatemala (10), Japan (150), Philippines, South Vietnam, Somalia (10), Taiwan (675), Thailand (200), Tunisia (10) and West Germany.
A Taiwanese upgrade is known as the M41D. This included a local manufactured 76 mm gun, diesel engine, reactive armour, laser rangefinder and a ballistics computer.
Length: 8.16 m (318 inches (including main armament)).
Width: 3.20 m (126 inches).
Height: 3.07 m (119 inches).
Weight: 23.495 kg (51.800 lb.).
Armour: 13 - 38 mm.
Engine: 6-cylinder Continental or Lycoming AOS-895-3, 14.669 cm3 (895 cubic inches) displacement, supercharged, air cooled.
Horsepower: 500 at 2.800 rpm.
Transmission: 2-range GM Allison CD 500-3 Cross-drive transmission with torque converter.
Transfer case: None.
Electrical system: 24 volt, negative ground.
Brakes: Mechanical, multiple disc.
Fording depth:
without preparation: 1.00 m (39 inches).
with deep water fording kit: N/A.
Fuel type: Petrol.
Fuel capacity: 530 liter (116 gallons).
Range: 160 km (100 miles).
Crew: 4.
Armament: Armed with a 76 mm gun M32, a 7.62 mm and a 12.7 mm (cal. .50) machine-gun. 65 rounds of 76 mm, 2.175 rounds of 12.7 mm and 5.000 rounds of 7.62 mm ammunition were carried.
Additional: AEG-B30 IR-projector. Mounted with AN/GRC-7 or AN/GRC-8 radio.

So I wonder if I build an early Danish version all I need to do is leave the existing gun and add some side skirting??
RonV

[Herk]

Bill,
Had this photo of a German M41 in the snow - thought it might help with a winter look.