IJN colors

[DaveS]

Well, I'm kind of committed to the olive green choice.  I have glued the two side panels to the cockpit floor.  I can try to dry brush it lighter.  All the information Lee and William have provided  to this simple "tank" builder has been so helpful.  I will admit up front that I want my Zero to be as true as possible.  I made some choices based on: kit instructions, the 3 or 4 color plates I have of different Zero cockpits, and one photo of a restored Zero(which is dangerous to trust) . Lets just say there are many variations, and info about the A6M5 is easier to find than  the A6M2. Holy Cow! I knew this would be hard, but wow! I am happy so far in how it looks, so I am applying some TLAR.  The next step is mixing some Aotake.  Tamiya recommends mixing X-13 metallic blue and X- 25 clear green. For such a nice model the seat belts are a real disappointment.  I am going to replace them with lead foil.

After this I will need a break before I take on the F4U-1.

David S

[WMReece]

Dave,

It was good seeing you yesterday. You're correct above the cockpit is not XF-71 on these early Zeros. After seeing your interior I thought it was a too dark. You should be shooting for a color more like FS 34095 or FS 34151 US Interior Green. What you've got is a good base for the shadows but is too dark for the main parts of the cockpit. I copied the url from j-aircraft.com :

Rob Graham's FS 595b chart : http://www.j-aircraft.org/research2/robgraham/fs595b.pdf

The color according to Nick Millman (Straggler) is very close to 34151. The real color seems to be a bit more olive leaning toward FS 34098. 34151 is an easy compromise.

Check here at Large Scale Planes: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=39845&page=2

You're correct about the wing folds and interior spaces other than the cockpit. They are Aotake, a blue-green protective coating, applied directly over the bare aluminum. My choice for Aotake (literally blue bamboo color) is to apply a smooth aluminum base with Tamiya AS-17 Bare Metal Silver or Floquil Brite Silver and then apply a 1:1 mix of Tamiya Clear Blue X-23 and Clear Green X-25 in thin coats to get a good cover. You should be able to see the aluminum sheen through the clear mix. I'm not a fan of Tamiya X-13 Metallic Blue. Though the color is about right it lacks the depth of the real protective cover coat which was applied over the bare metal.  In fact the only parts of the Zero that shouldn't be Aotake are the cockpit, inside the engine cowling (it's Blue-Black) and the wheel bays. Flap bays, fuselage interior other than the cockpit and wing fold areas are all Aotake. The area behind the bulkhead at the rear of the cockpit is Aotake. Ahead of that is the cockpit color.

The antenna mast is the fuselage color on these earlier a/c.

William

[DaveS]

Would the radio mast be wood color, or painted the body color?

David S

[DaveS]

My old eyes scored a 4.  It is interesting that we were deficient in the same area.

[Matt C]

Neat test, I got a 3. I'm deficient in the Blue/Green transition, although that may be an issue with a poor monitor.

[DaveS]

There is a link in William's reply for Xrite.com/color test challenge.  I took it, only takes a few minutes. Very cool. It uses a spectrum to score your color Acuity.

David

[DaveS]

William,
Thank you for the detailed advice.  I have two large bottles of Concrete and I admit I feel some apprehension about getting the color right.  I am lucky to also have some Polly scale OD to mix in.  There are always going to be critics about to finish, but I want it to look as right as possible.  This kit is too nice not to make the effort. I am building the A6M2 Model 21 from the Pearl Harbor period.  So if I understand correctly the would have been an aircraft built by Mitsubishi.  I should paint as Follows:
*Black/dark sea blue cowling, interior canopy frame, and decking behind the pilot.
*Olive cockpit and seat.
*Semi-gloss black landing gear and counter weights.
*Exterior color for the wheel bays and gear covers.
So Tamiya FX-71 would not be the correct interior color for the cockpit?  I plan to build with the wing tips folded.  The instructions call for the blue-green Aotake finish on several interior areas, including the exposed panel joints with the wings folded. Would that be correct for this plane?

Thanks
David

[WMReece]

Hi Dave,

I'm not on here as much as I should be but I'll lend a hand as well and add to what Lee said. Tamiya did indeed make a specific color for the Zero, XF-76 IJN Gray-Green in the acrylic bottles and AS-29 IJN Gray-Green in a rattle can spray acrylic lacquer. There has been a battle/war ongoing for about 20 years now about early (and late) Zero colors. I was one of the originators of the Polly Scale Concrete idea. As Lee said it's not bad for an out of the bottle paint. It is quite tan and can be dark on a small < 1/48 scale model. Concrete (not Aged Concrete) is a near match for FS 36350. You might want to add some White and just a touch of Olive Drab to give it the distinctive Olive cast. IJN Gray-Green is one of those colors that exhibit metamerism, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamerism_%28color%29 a color shift due to different light conditions. Many neutral gray/green/olive/yellow/violet/blue shades that have large gray components exhibit this color shift. Using those colors in tests is a way to determine a person's color acuity.

FS 16350: http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=16350

Color Acuity test: http://www.xrite.com/online-color-test-challenge

Check here, Aviation of Japan: http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2011/12/zero-paint-degradation-schematic-models.html
                                          http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2012/05/model-art-847-mitsubishi-a6m-zero.html

Polly Scale Concrete: http://www.ehobbies.com/flo414317.html



If you can get to a color like the upper row of chips on the AoJ color degradation set you'll be mighty close. Just don't use the traditional IJN Light Gray (nearly white) unless you're doing a derelict Zero in a post war bone yard. The new airplanes were gray-green and glossy. Mitsubishi aircraft had Blue-Black cowlings (1:1 mix of black with Glossy Sea Blue), interior canopy frames, and fuselage decking under the canopy behind the pilot. Cockpit and seat in an olive not too far from FS34098 or FS34151 but with more Olive. The wheel bay and interior of the landing gear covers were exterior color and the landing gear semi-gloss black as were the counter weights on the ailerons. The fabric control surfaces are a little more neutral gray than the metal Gray-Green of the body of the plane.

Nakajima built Zeros (the majority of Zero production, but none at PH) had a very dark black-gray where the blue-black would be on a Mitsubishi Zero. Cockpit interior in something like Humbrol 78 RAF Interior Green, (Tamiya XF-71 is dead on), black landing gear and cockpit decking. The wheelbay interiors could be the famous Aotake (blue-green over natural metal) but probably the exterior color with inner gear door interiors in Aotake.

Hope this helps,
William

[DaveS]

Lee,
Thank you for the advice.  I like your TLAR description. From all I know the paint color from period is a very difficult color to hammer down. I am lucky to have two large bottles of Concrete on hand.  Even though Polly Scale has been discontinued Tom's Trains in Cary had a good supply of their train colors.  I have also noticed some of the old Polly Scale basic colors are being marketed under new labels.  Since I am building a plane from Pearl Harbor/1942 time period, I think I will move forward with this color for now. Polly Scale did offer a color called Old Concrete that I might look at for comparison. I am open to any other suggestions.

Thanks,
David

[Lee_K]

Ooh boy, have you stepped into a hornet's nest!  The one thing most Japanese aircraft enthusiasts agree upon is that early Zeros were not painted light gray, even though modelers depicted them that way for about three decades.  Pieces of wrecked Japanese aircraft from the Pearl Harbor attack show a camouflage paint with a medium greenish browny grayish hue.  Tamiya made a spray can color and released it when they did their 1/32 scale A6M2.  That is where the color wars began on j-aircraft.com and still smolder from the flames.

For those of us in the TLAR (that looks about right) category, Polly Scale's Concrete color from their railroad line is supposed to be a reasonable match to the Pearl Harbor "amiero" (candy or caramel color, depending on the translation) color.  As I said, the self-professed experts still sling mud at each other about this, but Concrete is a much better choice than pure light gray.

I have a bottle of the paint that I will never use.  I would be happy to bring it the next meeting if you'd like it.

Lee K

[DaveS]

Hello Eagle Squadron,
I am planning to start work on Tamiya's 1/32 scale A6M2 Model 21 in the next few months - by spring, I hope.  I want to do the plane as it appeared early in the war.  I know there is a lot of debate about what the correct color truly is. Tamiya recommends one for their rattle can products, and their color plates give the plane a distinct green hue.  I also have what I think are accurate illustrations of a very light grey finish.  I have been told that Polly Scale's concrete is a good representation of the color I need.   I have never built a Zero before, so I am asking the club experts for their guidance.

Thank you,
David S